2.3/2.0 hybrid?

chance91 · 08-01-2010, 01:31 AM

Trying to get my head around this, I think I've got a grasp on it but I'm trying to get some specific information validated. I.E. has anyone tried this and succeeded.

Firstly, trying to get a 2.3l block to bolt to a 2.0l head. The 2.0 head is important here to preserve VVT. Secondly, trying to figure out if the 11mm deck height is going to change anything. I.E. if the deck height is offset downward by the engine mounts or upward. So, will you make the head mount higher or the oil pan mount lower... not that its much, less than 1/2 inch. So, basically, if you take a 2.3l block, build it with rods/pistons at ~9.0 compression ratio (the 2.3 has higher comp compared to a 2.0 for same pistons, right?) will it bolt right up to the 2.0 head?

Also, for head differences, the 2.3l head and 2.0l head are not the same, correct? Or are they actually the same casting with the 2.3l just having larger ports/valves? I can't seem to find the specific intake/exhaust diameters for each of these heads, but from reading a number of discussions it seems the 2.3l head has the same combustion chamber (since the bore is the same in both motors) so I don't see why a 2.3l head would be any better, since you can't deshroud any more than with a 2.0l... but maybe there is something with the ports/casting which would obviously make a difference.

I'm here because there is so little about the 2.0l MZR elsewhere, but god, the 2.0l duratec ford engine has been beat to death with a billion aftermarket solutions... and they are the same engine.

Also, for a funny reference I can actually feed you guys, be happy the 2010 MX5 is supposed to come with a forged crank... in a 2.0l MZR. A few years down that might be a sweet upgrade for a focus.

Buickboy · 08-01-2010, 09:50 AM

from what ive read the 2.3 will sit higher in the bay because of the taller deckheight

the 2.0 focus head and the 2.3 focus head are a little different port wise and thats where you see the extra flow/power. not sure how these compare to a MZR head though

Egz · 08-01-2010, 11:51 AM

Yes, the head will be higher. We have owners with 2.0s that put on a header designed around a 2.3l, and it sits closer to the steering rack and alternator because of the difference.

disciplerocks · 08-01-2010, 12:00 PM

This is interesting. I wanna see where this is going. I did the same concept on my old 22r engine from my Toyota pickup. Took the head off an old 20r, but they bolted right up.

chance91 · 08-01-2010, 12:49 PM

Well, this guy accomplished it with a Mazda MZR 2.3l engine. He didn't do a hybrid, but a whole swap. I wish he had gotten around to swapping heads/cams. I'm pretty sure the cams are inferior in the 2.3l vs the 2.0l MZR as the Miata is probably at a higher rate of tune than a base mazda 6/3. The nice thing with the 2.0/2.3 mazda's is they are set up for VVT. Also, Turbo Tom from here claims that the Mazda 2.3l uses a forged crank. Now, the only question is does the ford block swap for the mazda block, and do the heads swap.

Basically, my main question is answered, yes, you can get 2.3l out of the Mx-5, and the 2.3l MZR gives you lower compression for turboing which is awesome, and the goal. But a built bottom end is a better idea anyway.

This might be interesting down the line for focus people if someone can figure it out. I dunno how many of you run Megasquirt or full stand alones or the likes but having vvt in the focus would be awesome for NA power. It'd be something unseen thus far, no?

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=300694

Hell, this guy (brian goodwin, goodwinracing.com) made 270hp off of a 2.5l naturally aspirated. Albeit, he pulled out whats probably $10k worth of stops, but holy crap, that is something no Miata owner would have dreamed of before. That looks like the mill to have, and as you can see, a lot of 2.3l stuff bolts up to it. (header/intake manifold)

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/viewto...=1721&start=15

Reedicus · 08-02-2010, 06:54 PM

What year Miata is this motor going into? And yes that is a nutty all motor 2.5L in that goodwin miata and that thing is light!

chance91 · 08-02-2010, 11:54 PM

This is all talk about an NC. Its the 06+ model. mainly, the 06-08 NC1, the redesign was in 09, but it was just minor appearance, with a few hp bump in the motor. It'd still work.

These cars use the 2.0l MZR, which is why the duratec/MZR stroker or bigger bore motors are of interest. Its a really simple, direct engine swap.

If you're ever looking at a Miata (which you absolutely should) the 06 and up is a great platform if you get past the look. Mazda sells something like the focus' SAP called the Mazdaspeed appearance kit, here mazda usa
It changes the car enough to look really stellar. I'm trying to do up an 07 PRHT with MS body kit, custom turbo, 6-speed, 3.63 rear end. Probably going ot have to borrow some RX-8 parts to pull it off. The 6-speed on the early cars sucks, either 09+ miata or rx8 will be needed, and the 3.63 gears from an aus/jap 2004-2005 mazdaspeed are 3.63s... so those are needed. 4.11 are dumb...

alexdc · 08-04-2010, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chance91

This is all talk about an NC. Its the 06+ model. mainly, the 06-08 NC1, the redesign was in 09, but it was just minor appearance, with a few hp bump in the motor. It'd still work.

These cars use the 2.0l MZR, which is why the duratec/MZR stroker or bigger bore motors are of interest. Its a really simple, direct engine swap.

If you're ever looking at a Miata (which you absolutely should) the 06 and up is a great platform if you get past the look. Mazda sells something like the focus' SAP called the Mazdaspeed appearance kit, here mazda usa
It changes the car enough to look really stellar. I'm trying to do up an 07 PRHT with MS body kit, custom turbo, 6-speed, 3.63 rear end. Probably going ot have to borrow some RX-8 parts to pull it off. The 6-speed on the early cars sucks, either 09+ miata or rx8 will be needed, and the 3.63 gears from an aus/jap 2004-2005 mazdaspeed are 3.63s... so those are needed. 4.11 are dumb...

this is one sick miata. my first sport car/roadster will PROBABLY be a miata. but the older ones. althought the mazdaspeed miata in 04-05 picked my interest the most!! the only thing they seem to complain about is the short gearing.

how about your ms miata!!!?? you like it enough or you recommend something else...?

chance91 · 08-05-2010, 11:50 AM

I love the MSM, don't get me wrong. But I've sat with it at about 210whp for but 2 years now and wanted to move up to around 300, and it requires a pretty significant upgrade in parts, loosing the whole stock turbo system and a motor rebuild, with around $5,000 or so in parts invested so far, I figured I could sell the parts/car and start over with an NC and have a better platform in the end, since I'm basically at square one on the MSM anyway, going FMII turbo kit.

I might keep it anyway, not sure yet. But if you want more than about 230 or so you need to get rid of the stock ecu, and even to get there you need methanol or something else crazy. The worst parts of the car are the 6-speed's shoddiness (which some people claim not to have) and the 4.11's are kind of annoying, and for sure the stock ecu, as there are a lot of nuiances associated with that thing, much like the MS-protege... But it handles very well, and very linearly out of the box, it can be pretty fast with bolt on upgrades, and its an easy platform to work with. The stereo is pretty good, and the car is really gorgeous too.

I like it, but a 2006 NC vs a 2005 MSM is a 20 year newer car in design philosophy, with an engine designed in the 2000's, not the 1980s, and using a much more modern chassis.

08-01-2010, 01:31 AM	#1
chance91 Focus Rookie Join Date: Aug 2010 Fan#: 77243 Location: San Diego, CA What I Drive: 2005 Silver Mazdaspeed Miata Posts: 4 FF Reputation: 1 Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)	2.3/2.0 hybrid? Trying to get my head around this, I think I've got a grasp on it but I'm trying to get some specific information validated. I.E. has anyone tried this and succeeded. Firstly, trying to get a 2.3l block to bolt to a 2.0l head. The 2.0 head is important here to preserve VVT. Secondly, trying to figure out if the 11mm deck height is going to change anything. I.E. if the deck height is offset downward by the engine mounts or upward. So, will you make the head mount higher or the oil pan mount lower... not that its much, less than 1/2 inch. So, basically, if you take a 2.3l block, build it with rods/pistons at ~9.0 compression ratio (the 2.3 has higher comp compared to a 2.0 for same pistons, right?) will it bolt right up to the 2.0 head? Also, for head differences, the 2.3l head and 2.0l head are not the same, correct? Or are they actually the same casting with the 2.3l just having larger ports/valves? I can't seem to find the specific intake/exhaust diameters for each of these heads, but from reading a number of discussions it seems the 2.3l head has the same combustion chamber (since the bore is the same in both motors) so I don't see why a 2.3l head would be any better, since you can't deshroud any more than with a 2.0l... but maybe there is something with the ports/casting which would obviously make a difference. I'm here because there is so little about the 2.0l MZR elsewhere, but god, the 2.0l duratec ford engine has been beat to death with a billion aftermarket solutions... and they are the same engine. Also, for a funny reference I can actually feed you guys, be happy the 2010 MX5 is supposed to come with a forged crank... in a 2.0l MZR. A few years down that might be a sweet upgrade for a focus.

08-01-2010, 09:50 AM	#2
Buickboy d20 + NAWZZZ Join Date: Oct 2005 Fan#: 28542 Location: CT, CT What I Drive: 72 Skylark, 07 ZX3 Posts: 2,876 FF Reputation: 25 Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (10)	from what ive read the 2.3 will sit higher in the bay because of the taller deckheight the 2.0 focus head and the 2.3 focus head are a little different port wise and thats where you see the extra flow/power. not sure how these compare to a MZR head though __________________ ==2007 White ZX3== Bolt-on d20 and ZEX Wet Kit. Someday built 92mm sleeved Duratec! Cossie IM and Stage 3 Cranes waiting! ==1972 Skylark=455/th350/10bolt== Very neglected as of late.

08-01-2010, 11:51 AM	#3
Egz Sückn' n Blown Join Date: Sep 2003 Fan#: 442 Location: Tappahannock, VA What I Drive: 2003 2.3l ZX3 Posts: 7,487 FF Reputation: 109 Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (3)	Yes, the head will be higher. We have owners with 2.0s that put on a header designed around a 2.3l, and it sits closer to the steering rack and alternator because of the difference. __________________ January 2008 Focus Fanatics ROTM 2003 Ford Focus ZX3 2.3l N/A = 206 HP, 150 ft-lbs, 13.967@100.88MPH 2006 Ford Fusion 2.3l Turbo = 244HP, 247ft-lbs duratec.wikispaces.com - Duratec Wiki - Sign up and contribute!

08-01-2010, 12:49 PM	#5
chance91 Focus Rookie Join Date: Aug 2010 Fan#: 77243 Location: San Diego, CA What I Drive: 2005 Silver Mazdaspeed Miata Posts: 4 FF Reputation: 1 Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)	Well, this guy accomplished it with a Mazda MZR 2.3l engine. He didn't do a hybrid, but a whole swap. I wish he had gotten around to swapping heads/cams. I'm pretty sure the cams are inferior in the 2.3l vs the 2.0l MZR as the Miata is probably at a higher rate of tune than a base mazda 6/3. The nice thing with the 2.0/2.3 mazda's is they are set up for VVT. Also, Turbo Tom from here claims that the Mazda 2.3l uses a forged crank. Now, the only question is does the ford block swap for the mazda block, and do the heads swap. Basically, my main question is answered, yes, you can get 2.3l out of the Mx-5, and the 2.3l MZR gives you lower compression for turboing which is awesome, and the goal. But a built bottom end is a better idea anyway. This might be interesting down the line for focus people if someone can figure it out. I dunno how many of you run Megasquirt or full stand alones or the likes but having vvt in the focus would be awesome for NA power. It'd be something unseen thus far, no? http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=300694 Hell, this guy (brian goodwin, goodwinracing.com) made 270hp off of a 2.5l naturally aspirated. Albeit, he pulled out whats probably $10k worth of stops, but holy crap, that is something no Miata owner would have dreamed of before. That looks like the mill to have, and as you can see, a lot of 2.3l stuff bolts up to it. (header/intake manifold) http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/viewto...=1721&start=15 Last edited by chance91; 08-01-2010 at 02:44 PM.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

08-02-2010, 06:54 PM	#6
Reedicus Focus Enthusiast Join Date: Dec 2005 Fan#: 30035 Location: San Jose, CA What I Drive: 2003 2.3 Posts: 84 FF Reputation: 1 Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (3)	What year Miata is this motor going into? And yes that is a nutty all motor 2.5L in that goodwin miata and that thing is light!

08-02-2010, 11:54 PM	#7
chance91 Focus Rookie Join Date: Aug 2010 Fan#: 77243 Location: San Diego, CA What I Drive: 2005 Silver Mazdaspeed Miata Posts: 4 FF Reputation: 1 Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)	This is all talk about an NC. Its the 06+ model. mainly, the 06-08 NC1, the redesign was in 09, but it was just minor appearance, with a few hp bump in the motor. It'd still work. These cars use the 2.0l MZR, which is why the duratec/MZR stroker or bigger bore motors are of interest. Its a really simple, direct engine swap. If you're ever looking at a Miata (which you absolutely should) the 06 and up is a great platform if you get past the look. Mazda sells something like the focus' SAP called the Mazdaspeed appearance kit, here mazda usa It changes the car enough to look really stellar. I'm trying to do up an 07 PRHT with MS body kit, custom turbo, 6-speed, 3.63 rear end. Probably going ot have to borrow some RX-8 parts to pull it off. The 6-speed on the early cars sucks, either 09+ miata or rx8 will be needed, and the 3.63 gears from an aus/jap 2004-2005 mazdaspeed are 3.63s... so those are needed. 4.11 are dumb...

08-05-2010, 11:50 AM	#9
chance91 Focus Rookie Join Date: Aug 2010 Fan#: 77243 Location: San Diego, CA What I Drive: 2005 Silver Mazdaspeed Miata Posts: 4 FF Reputation: 1 Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)	I love the MSM, don't get me wrong. But I've sat with it at about 210whp for but 2 years now and wanted to move up to around 300, and it requires a pretty significant upgrade in parts, loosing the whole stock turbo system and a motor rebuild, with around $5,000 or so in parts invested so far, I figured I could sell the parts/car and start over with an NC and have a better platform in the end, since I'm basically at square one on the MSM anyway, going FMII turbo kit. I might keep it anyway, not sure yet. But if you want more than about 230 or so you need to get rid of the stock ecu, and even to get there you need methanol or something else crazy. The worst parts of the car are the 6-speed's shoddiness (which some people claim not to have) and the 4.11's are kind of annoying, and for sure the stock ecu, as there are a lot of nuiances associated with that thing, much like the MS-protege... But it handles very well, and very linearly out of the box, it can be pretty fast with bolt on upgrades, and its an easy platform to work with. The stereo is pretty good, and the car is really gorgeous too. I like it, but a 2006 NC vs a 2005 MSM is a 20 year newer car in design philosophy, with an engine designed in the 2000's, not the 1980s, and using a much more modern chassis.